Larry's EV · 12 October 05
Meet Dr. Larry Tillman’s 1991 Geo Metro EV: No Gas 2
This isn’t your average electric car, as you will see. Clocking in at a spry 1,900 pounds it features 12 batteries, seven solar panels, and seven chargers. He even has a ham transceiver on board.
Here’s the story straight from Larry:
To explore what would be required to convert a gasoline car to electric, I purchased an old 1991 Geo Metro LSI in the spring of 2004 for $500. After removing the engine, gas tank, radiator and exhaust I cleaned up the car restoring the paint and cleaning up the interior.
In the weeks ahead I purchased an electric motor, controller and throttle sensor along with the batteries and battery chargers. I decided to go with a 72 volt DC system. After three months of spare-time labor expended in mounting and wiring all of the components, the modified car was ready for a test drive.
I carried a passenger on the maiden voyage and arranged for a chase car to follow just in the event of a breakdown. The car was able to reach a top speed of between 55 and 60 MPH on the main highway. The first trip was only about 10 miles.
Several things were learned in the first test drive; the wiring size needed to be larger due to heating, and the tires needed more inflation to reduce drag. The car had plenty of pep and handled like it did with a gas engine only with no engine noise or exhaust fumes. The little Geo had become a prototype “0” emission data-gathering car. Subsequent experimental refinements further increased its efficiency.
Recently solar panels were added across the trunk lid not so much to add charge to the batteries but to keep the battery voltage high during times the car is away from a changing plug (standard 110 VAC house current). Normally the car can recharge overnight with its seven onboard chargers or within 4 hours on fast charge. Interestingly the batteries and chargers were all purchased from a local Wal-Mart store, and the solar panels were readily available from Radio Shack. Although the solar panels used on the Geo are now a discontinued item, other off-the-shelf panels, which are even more efficient, are available from various retail sources at reasonable prices.
Since the Geo’s conversion it has been driven over 6 thousand miles (May 2005) and all of this without burning one drop of gasoline. The terrain or other factors such as carrying a passenger or cargo or both affect the range, but still it has proven to be a practical and effective form of alternative transportation.
I have already been invited to display a conversion car and discuss the mechanics involved in this process with the engineering students at Cedarville University. In addition I have been asked to display a converted car and discuss the topic at Southeastern High School for their science and shop classes. Topics such as weight shifting on the chassis, gearing, and stabilizing will be discussed. The students will also be given the opportunity for consulting help should they decide to create a conversion car as a project.
The children growing up today and being educated in our system are the ones who will be handed the keys to freeing our Nation of oil dependency and cleaning up the environment from the environmental impact of the industrialization of the world. American ingenuity can save this planet from global warming and in the process reduce if not completely eliminate our need and dependency on foreign oil.
A few more details on the electric car components:
- 1991 Geo Metro LSI
- 5 speed manual transmission
- D&D electric motor
- AXE controller
- Firestone SS tires (40psi)
- Range 42 miles
- Top Speed 70mph, normal cruise of 45/50
- Curb weight 1,907lbs
- Conversion cost: $4,000
Great job and congratulations, Larry!
If you are in the middle of a conversion, just finished, or happily commuting gas-free already and would like to share your EV pictures, experience, and specs please drop me a line.
NOTE: We’ve posted an update: Larry’s EV II
Great job. What HP is the motor you used?
I didn’t see the HP listed for his motor, here’s another page of EV Info. I followed the link for D&D motors, trying to find a 72volt motor. Maybe a 7.5?
Yep it is a 7.2 HP I forgot to mention that in the article. Thanks for asking.
this is a really fantastic piece of work that you have done. It is absolutely fantastic
Good luck in the future with this kind of work
73 de john N8abd
Is there any reason you did not use the 7245 alltrax controller?
I am doing a similar conversion ….
Hay Jimmy- I am using an Altrax 7245. Thanks for asking. That is what the AXE controller is.
Hi John;
It was good to hear from you on the phone. And thanks for the comments on my project here
Larry
I am atrying to do the same project, is there any reason that every one is using standard Transmission instead of Automatic
Hi Ilyas,
A couple of reasons:
1. Auto requires that the motor be turning a little bit all of the time in order to keep the transmission hydraulics “charged” up. This means wiring up the controller/motor to “idle” or use another pump. Both of which means extra circuitry and wasting power.
2. Automatics aren’t as efficient as manual transmissions. Probably not a big deal, but we strive for efficiency wherever possible.
Yep Jerry, I couldn’t of said it better myself. There is one other thing that I am often asked and that is about power brakes. The solution is very simple. Take a drill bit and puncture the diaphragm and presto….instant standard brakes. “Try it”
Brakes – I tried cutting the power to my vacuum pump. Hard to stop!
so I gave up at that point, believing that maybe the cylinder bore ratios were not conducive to non-assisted stopping.
should I try to remove the servo unit? Is it enough to take the vacuum hose off? Is there a way I can test it without wrecking the diaphragm?
Hello James
I really don’t know what to tell you about testing without putting a hole in the diaphram. I have good fried who has been a mechanic at a local garage here that told me to do that and sure enough it worked. This little GEO is the only car I have converted to date and I have never tried such a thing on any other car. If you only disconnect the vacumn hose it will not help because your not pushing on that your pushing on the diaphram and that is what is making it hard to depress the peddle. As soon as that pressue is releaved it should press a lot easier. Hope this helps and good luck.
How has the Alltrax 7245 holding up and performing?
Thanks Dr Larry. I’l go back to the manuals and see if there’s any other way I can do it. Maybe I’ll buy another master cylinder.
It’s a beautiful little car by the way!
Hi Cal
The first Alltrax 7245 lasted for over 5,000 care free miles. Then one day for no reason I can think of it just went bang (literally) I sent it back in and the company made good on their guarantee. I since bought another one and it has been working flawlessly. So now I have a spare just incase that ever happens again. You may never have a problem with them. From what I hear what happened to me was a fluke but it is a good idea to add a fan to keep it cool even though they are mostly heatsenks. I keep a 12 volt fan on the motor and one on the controller. It isn’t called for but in the hot summer when they are working very hard they can get very hot. I think the cooler you can keep things the longer they will last. Good Luck Cal
Thanks for the info about the Alltrax. There are reports of 7245s failing when output quickly goes from max to zero. (max pedal to no pedal) Do you remember if that was what happened in your case?
Is your D&D motor an ES-23B? No problems with that, I would guess.
Hi Cal
Yea I remember what happened. I had been out and as I recall had put about 45 miles (that’s about the limit) on it and stopped at a friend’s house. When I got back in and went to depress the pedal that is when I heard a pop. It actually smoked the thing. Belived it or not I was still able to crawl and I mean crawl back home only two blocks away. I could have walked faster. If I were to update the picture of under the hood you would see I now have two new fans under there. Larry
I just found out that the March/April isue of Countryside Magazine will be featuring this car and a story of how I have put solar power at the house here. Thanks Dr. Larry
Congratulations Larry!
Here’s a link to the online CountrySide. Looks like they post some articles on-line, like this homemade chicken plucker rig!
I am often asked if I drive an EV any different then I would a gas car. The answer is yes! In hilly country I power down one hill and coast up the other. This allows you to use gravity to increase your range. The other thing is coast every chance you get. Never use power when you can coast up to a stop. Don’t use power going down a hill unless you gaining speed to go up the next one. ...Dr. Larry
Hello Dr Larry – I’m about to embark on a Metro conversion: same vintage, but hatchback body, very low-budget, using all the parts from an old 48v forklift.
I’m wondering how your charger set-up works. My question will reveal my general ignorance on these matters: is each charger connected to an individual, isloated battery for charging, or does the combined charge equal 72v so you can charge the pack all connected?
Also, I have read that batteries are best charged in a 3-step process, where voltage varies depending on the SOC (to promote long batt. life). How does your setup manage this? Thanks – Darin.
Where did you get the coupler and adapter ??
Hi Darin
I have six batteries in series to come up with the 72 VDC. I have another battery hooked paralell to each one of those batteries to increase the capacity. The chargers I bought are just off the shelf at Wal-Mart and have three setting 2/4/6 amp. I usually set them on 6 amp. Each charger is hooked to each battery as designed and will charge the two that are hooked together. Usually overnight will bring them right back up. I don’t know that you can hook up chargers in series. Bet that doesn’t work. Anyway the slower you can charge a battery (6 amp isn’t fast) the longer your batteries will last. The chargers have a built in system that will automatically slow the charging down when the batteries are almost completely charged. I hope this helps and good luck with your project. If I can be of help don’t hesitate to ask me any questions….DL
Hi Jimmy
There is this place in Springfield, Ohio close to where I live that is called Technology Inc. They have this thing called a Love/Joy connector. Best discribed as two three figered units that fit together with a nylon incert. I took the female spline out of the old clutch plate and attached it to the center of one side so it would slip over the trnasmission shaft and the other half was attached to the motor. The two slip together and down the road you go. Worked for me anyway. If you ask for a love/joy connector you will need to specify the size you will need to fit over both the motor shaft and transmission shaft. Usually that will be two different sizes. But you can mix and match. Hope this helps…...DL
For a second your Love/Joy comment had me thinking the spammers had snuck back!
Is this the company? LoveJoy, Inc
I found a picture of one in use, on Reverend Gadget's latest EV project, a Triumph (page 1 here). You'll note that he's using the lovejoy to connect a generator to the end of his ADC motor.
Hi Jerry
Yep Yep Yep, that’s the company and that is the same connector that Rev. Gadget is using. Thanks for looking that up. I hope it helps a lot of first time EVers who are wondering how to hook their motor to the transmission…..DL
Hi DL: thanks a lot for the reply (and to Jerry for providing this amazing resource). how the heck did EV conversion newbies get by before the internet ;)
Well Darin if it had not been for the internet I would not have been that inspired to start this project. Yep we owe Jerry thanks for this wonderful source. I hope you have had time to look this entire site over …. it’s fantastic. Good Job Jerry DL
Still confused on converting my 90 metro to manual brakes. I can see the spring when I removed the check valve, but not sure which diaphram to drill thru ??
Jimmy, The diaphram you are looking for should be made of rubber or have rubber around the outside as a seal. Just rupture the seal and that should do it. Also did you try to see if the brakes work too hard without doing anything? They still work just have to push a little harder. DL
The brakeshave worked hard since I got the car with the vacuum removed. I can stop the car but have to push quite hard to do it . would like to be able to lock up the brakes at say 40 mph. With the check valve removed I can see the spring and diaphram, so the resistance ,if any, must be from the spring or on the dash side of the diaphram.
Which walmart batteries are you using ?
Jimmy-
I am using EverStart deep cycle marine batteries. The battery I am using is the big 600 amp 720 CCA DP24. The battery is priced around $50 and I yet to wear one out. I have been swapping batteries in the car with new ones but only so I can put some in the basement for the solar electric system at the house. I have had some of those batteries going on three years old and they are all showing good. They are like timex watches they take a licking and keep on ticking. Somehow you just can’t beat a good ol lead acid battery. ..DL
Ok remember you heard it here first on Jerry’s site. I haven’t been saying anything about this because I was not sure of the outcome and I still am not. But for the past year I have been applying to the federal gov. for a grant to create a company that can convert gas cars to EVs for Urban use. Short rang commuting. Today I had a meeting with our Local Congressman David Hobson along with some of the other fine folks who will be in on this adventure with me. The congressman was very incouraging and is now working on the funding. So everyone cross your fingers that maybe sometime this year or within my lifetime we will see if the government is serious about supporting alternative energy projects to help us in our attempt to free ourselves from foreigh oil or they are just blowing hot air as usual. DL
Congratulations Dr. Larry! Sounds like a very interesting project. Let us know how it goes.
Hi Dr Larry.
I think what you are doing is very sensible from an ecological / “reducing foreign oil” point of view. I don’t see the point in building a lot of new cars with electric motors when there are so many existing cars out there. It is true that purpose made cars would probably be lighter and better conceived, but the fuss and energy and wastage and expense of replacing all the metal bodied car stock out there makes your approach so much more achievable.
It might be good to as well to develop kits to order for a model range.
Have a look at my EV supplier, Robert, he converts cars to order: AVT. He sells basic kits, my car was built using one, but they are not specifically developed for a model range.
Very best of luck! If I were a braver man I would do the same.
Great Idea Everyone can convert there current car. If it is too heavy then maybe they need to think about that….
Well today I finished a major job moving some of the batteries up front under the hood. I will be sending an updated picture of under the hood. I managed to find room for 4 of the batteries up there. Now the car is better ballanced as the front where the engine use to be is built to handle the weight. So that puts four batteries under the hood, three behind the seat and six in the trunk. Rides a lot better. In case your wondering, the weight of each battery is 50 lbs so the total is 650 lbs of battery weight in the car….DL
Look forward to seeing pics. I am looking for space in my 90 Geo to add another battery. 48 Volts. Sometime maybe you could see what your best elapsed time for 25 miles “Round trip” is and we could compare
Hi Jerry
I drive 28 miles round trip to my office in Springfield, Ohio. It takes me about 15 minutes each way but I usually don’t push it over 50. The village of South Charleston, Ohio where I live is a small rural farming area so I am able to take the back roads with little or no early morning traffic. When I hit the city I slow to 35 or less in traffic. I am home today so I will take the camera out and take a new picture of under the hood for you to replace this one with. I knew I had the room, constructing the battey racks was the trick. It certainly will make it more difficut to get to the love/joy connector now as there is so much stuff in the way but it is still a lot simplier to get to then say pulling an engine to get to a clutch..DL
Sorry the above message was ment for Jimmy
First read about your wonderful invention in the Countryside Magazine. Was very fascinated and am considering building one myself. One problem – I’m very ignorant of wiring. I was wondering if I you would allow me the opportunity to look at your car to see how it’s done? I live in Millersburg, Ohio. (20 mi. southwest of Canton). Also, I can’t find anywhere in your story about the expense involved in a project like this, excluding labor.
Hi Stephen
Of course you may come and have a look see. I will be more then happy to share what ever I can with you so we can get more EVs on the road. Send me a personal E-mail at: thetillmans@netzero.com and I will forward you my personal telephone number. Good to hear from you and good luck with your project. Oh I almost forgot, the cost minus labor to convert the car was about $4,000.
Larry,
Why do you need to use the trans? Can’t you just do some kind of direct drive thing and dump the trans?
Hi Dr. Larry –
I’m at the stage where I’m figuring out the easiest coupler approach to take, and I’m investigating the Love/Joy you used. Can you just clarify:
When you re-used the female-splined part from the clutch plate, how exactly did you attach it to the Love/Joy half?
Thanks – Darin
To answer Roberts question as to why you need a transmission I would say I guess you don’t except for one thing. If you don’t want to ware out your batteries, motor and conncectors due to the tourq I think it is necessary to keep the trans. Some guys like to lock their car in 3ed gear or such but I think it is a lot less stressful on all your parts to let your car go through the gears. If you take off in 3ed gear from a dead stop it is going to take a lot more amps to get up to speed but if you start out in first and run all the way through your gears even up to 5th overdrive once your speed is reached the trip to upper speeds cost a lot less amps to get there. To check this out look at the amps you draw taking off in 3ed in reguards to taking off in first. Its only a fraction of the draw. Keeping the trans calculates to less power used and greater range. Hope this helps.
All your posts are great and very educational. I am starting a EV project with a 82 Golf, does anyone see any problems like a better auto to start with?? The Golf uses a side ways mounted motor, will that present any problems?
I live in southern oregon, any close by EV’rs?
Lbyer@yahoo.com
Hi Lee. There are loads of Golfs on ev album you can have a look at. Seems quite a popular car. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/type/VOLK
Hi Lee
You should have no problems mounting the motor sideways. Lots of converts do that. I wish you lots of luck with your project and then many miles of enjoyable fun.
Dr. Larry,
Would a Prestolite 36 volt 6 5/8” Diameter fork lift truck motor be powerful enough to run a volkswaggen beetle?
DR Harry,
Have discovered that the Prestolite motor is marked, 48 Volts question still the same.
Donald Moyes
Hi Don,
There are lots of people using Prestolite motors out there e.g. Are these the same sort as yours? Maybe try googling your motor name and number and “EV” to see who’s using it and how. Usually the motor voltage rating can be exceeded in EV use. You won’t be running it hard all the time.
I have two of these 48 volt Prestolite motors, would it be wise to fit both intead of running more volts?
I would love to be enough of an expert to tell you for sure. My instinct is that you should fit just one motor to your beetle gearbox via an adaptor plate, email one of the people who has an existing beetle ev. Unless you have a really foolproof way of fitting 2 motors, that is. The reason that most people just use the to-gearbox conversion is because it is expensive and tricky to get any other type working.
Would any one else like to comment on this one?
Like James, I too wish I could be more of a help. I have a friend who has a 36 vdc bettle conversion underway but it is winter here in Ohio and the project is on hold until warmer weather. I don’t know about the 24 volt ones but I feel James has given some good advice.
Great site guys, I’m at present touring Japan in a camper but want to build an ev on my return to New Zealand. There are many free small vans here some with very low k’s I may just send one home for the job.
NZ is fairly strict re modifying any car, did you / anyone have to get engineers reports re weight distribution & or mechanical modifications ?.
Our transport aulthority has gone overboard with regulations in NZ, but I live in hope there are still humans within the ” system” who harbour comon sence.
I recently spoke to a guy in Australia (Terry, if you are out there would you like to comment?) who gave up on his EV project after buying a donor vehicle because the costs and trouble with registration were too exasperating. He ended up feeling that the system wasn’t designed for small scale EV modders in Australia and it just wasn’t worth the fight. Are the regulations similar for NZ? I have no engineer’s report on my british conversion.
I am in NZ and I am building an electric car!
The regulations are not really that tough as long as you follow the correct guidelines. There is an association called the LVVTA (low volume vehicle technical association) who look after people like us who want to build one off’s i.e. hot rods, modified vehicles etc. I also have the electric vehicle build code from them and would be happy to forward a PDF copy to you. Email me on n.smith@peltechdotcodotnz.
Hi James and Nick. Thanks for dropping by the site and letting others know that EVs are happening all over the world. I wish you both much luck with your projects and really hope all of the red tape can be gotten through quickly
Hi all. Can someone comment on pros and cons of using an AC system in an EV? Is regen possible with series wound DC motors? Thanks
Larry, did you do anything to the bottom of your car? Did you cover up the engine compartment from the bottom to protect the motor and reduce drag? Great looking Geo EV!
A very breif overgeneralizing comment about AC/DC
AC = better and more expensive
DC = cheaper and not as good.
Unless Im wrong you can use regen with series DC (As Jerry did for a while) but it works better with AC.
Call me Captain Tightwad but it’s DC for me.
:)
I have regen in my DC car. It uses a Zapi H2 controller with regen. I believe you can recover more energy using AC regen, but I am glad I have it, it helps slow the car down during accelerator lift off and braking.
I am also a tightwad!
In response to Serge, I had a big piece of rubber like an old mud flap that I mounted under the motor to act like a splash guard and it must be working because I have driven through some pretty hard rain and even mud puddles. One should protect the motor from possible water damage.
I was wondering how I’d protect the motor from water. That old mudflap or rubber floor mat seems like a good idea.
Hi Gavin, I’m with Serge here. If you can cover the underside of the engine bay completely with your rubber / plastic then you might get rid of some of the turbulence from under the car and lower your Cd factor. This may increase your range by a little bit. Splash guard and range extender in one!
helo. (i changed my name from steven to honda insight sorry for the repeat comment)
I have 2 questions?
(1) What are the top light weight vehicle that look like a sport car that i can convert to electric?
(2) i have a honda insight but i have no ide how to convert to electric can i donate my car for a project? Or can some one show me how to do it?
Hello Larry,
I’m looking for input on a couple of things. I’m preparing to convert a 91 Dodge Colt. I travel 48 mile round trip to work each day and 2 miles of 25 degree hills in each direction. The car that I am converting is a hatchback so I have a little room to work with in the rear as well as a larger than normal area under the hood for a compact car. I have chosen a ADC L91-4003 as my engine and the Alltrax 7245 for my controller. (This can be upgraded to a Curtis later if I find that I need more voltage. The motor can do 72 to 120 volts.) My main concern is batteries. Given the added distance to travel and the terrain, do you think that running a third set of the same type of batteries you are or perhaps 2 sets of Trojans in parallel. (The 2 sets of Trojans may actually weigh more but take up much less room.) Also I planning on using a Schumacher Multi Battery Charger — 10 Amp, 72 Volt to reduce weight. Looking for input before I start. Anyone.
Hello Mike
Sorry I was so long finding your question as most of the activity is now on the second page that can be accessed from the top of this one. Anyway about your battery question. One must consider the weight of the extra batteries versus the power required to move them down the road. There is a point and I don’t really know how you figure it but there is a point where you don’t gain that much by adding extra batteries. I think on my Geo I have hit (by accident)just the right power/wight ratio
How about an update on the Geo, Larry? thanks, stan
A question for anyone using a Curtis 1231 controller:
After a few minutes of driving, what temperature does your controller get to?
Is it just warm or too hot to touch?
I was wondering as I’ll be monitoring my controller closely once installed.
I have the EXACT same car and want to do the same thing…can you help?
Gavin
Controllers have a tendency to get hot, mine gets very hot in the summer. I actually have a small 12 volt fan I can swith on from inside that will blow air over the controller and I have one for the motor. I really don’t know that it helps all that much but I don’t reckon It can’t hurt. Hay Ivan do you mean you have a Geo Metro? 1991
Larry, Yes it’s a 91 metro convertible, same color same interior! It was pretty cool seeing a carbon copy of my car converted to electric. Would like to have a detailed discusion w/ you, at your convenience, as I would like to have my conversion done in the next 3 months as well. Does your controller provide regen to the batteries? Also, What are you’re thoughts on using LI ion batts? Thanks,
Ivan
Hi Ivan, Yes the little Geo will make you a fine conversion. No I don’t have a controller that does regeneration. Wish it did but I really wonder if one picks up that much from that kind of system. Also I would love to have Lithium Ion batteries, but from my understanding they are still small and very expensive. Look at the T-Zeor for instance. over 7000 lap-top computer batteries built into the doors. Call me sometime if you wish. (937) 462-8376. Hope to hear from you soon.
Hi Dr.Larry, I too have a 91 geo metro convertible that i am going to convert. I just stumbled onto this page while looking for parts. I actually have two, a yellow 91 and a red 93. I’ve blown both the engines, so i figure now is the time to convert to electric! I have the factory geo service manual and the whole 93 car for parts(its an auto) if i can be of any help to you as i’ve learned alot from you already.
Hi Dr.Larry, Was there a part number for the love joy connector that you used? And do you remember how much it costs as i have the same exact car as you and would like to go this route. Also are you using the d&d es-15a motor? Thanks, Ken
Hi,
I started a metro conversion a couple months back. I am definitely going to use your tips on the brakes. I started a blog on the project here:
http://electricmetro.blogspot.com/
Gavin
Hi Baerfoot
I checked out your website and I was impressed. Good job on the video about the vegi-car. That was a lot of work for you and I must say a job well done. Keep up the good work. A week ago I parked the EV in the barn for a couple of months here or maybe until March. It has turned very cold and for the Geo that means the batteries are less effective. I don’t like driving it in the snow and snow we have. I don’t have much of a heater in it only a small 12 volt one like you would buy at an auto store to defrost the windows and that is what I do with it but for heating up the car well let’s just say you best put on a coat. Everyone keep up the good work on your EVs and lets keep each other informed….Dr. Larry
Baerfoot – what a shocker (pardon the pun :D ) to visit your blog and see what looks to me like the identical twin of the ForkenSwift!
Quite a few people follow the FS’s detailed conversion journal at Ecomodder.com, so I took the liberty of starting a thread to alert people about your blog as well. I’m sure you’ll pick up some readers from it.
Definitely looking forward to watching your progress – particularly through the vids.
Best of luck!
Darin
Video may be in the works for this spring or early summer. I have a friend that is going to be helping me with it. My interest exceeds the car as I have a home that runs on solar electric, solar thermal and this spring a wind turbine. I help out each year with the American Solar Energy Society as my home and car are on the National tour. I really enjoy going green. Thanks for your comments.
Hello Baerfoot and DL:
I can see Baerfoot is using the D&D motor but I can’t read the model number. Which model is it and is it the same as Doctor Larry’s? I have a Mazda ’93 Mazda MX3 that may be an EV candidate.
Thanks
Mark
Darin, I don’t always claim to know everything and I have been wondering as most of us are, why did you name your car ForkenSwift? Just wondering here in Ohio.
ForkenSwift… It was Ivan’s idea, actually. Forklift parts + Suzuki Swift donor car (which was ultimately abandoned for a less rusty Metro clone).
I’d love to see some video of your car. Looking forward to it.
cheers- Darin
The model motor I am using is the ES-15A.
Does anyone have any pictures of where to drill in the brakes in order to use them without the vacum pump. That would really help.
Bearfoot
First just try them without the vacumn pump and see if that brake pressure is acceptable to you. Sometimes you don’t need to do anything but push harder.If you want to releave the pressure to a more standard brake just rupture the diafram by taking it out or just drilling through it.
Update on NO GAS II
Hello friends. I put the EV up in January as it gets very cold here in Ohio in the winter. However since the increase in gas prices I decided to bring her back out a bit early this year. I normally give NO GAS a good going over to make sure everything is OK since it has been sitting a couple of months on a monitored charge. I normally charge all batteries with a big floor charger (80-100) type for about 30 to 45 minutes each set or until I can hear the gas bubbles. Then I put the load charger on each set and check them for capacity. This year I found two batteries that were not up to snuff with one actually down to 10 volts. Replaced it and swapped another out for a spare I had in the basement. Seems to be working well now and ready for another year of driving gas free. I normally park the car out in front of the house on the street and this year already I have had phone calls and stop bys just wanting to know how they can get a car like that. Wish you all well and keep up all of your good work.
Dr. Larry
Thats kool. we need to outsmart the gasoline engine and have stuff like this but make it able to go nonstop with strong solar pannels that way it is cost free.
Hello Dr Larry and other EV’ers. My car is done finally!! 91 metro convertible!!! I just wanted to say thanks to the people who post on this website even though nobody answered any of my questions, but hey ive learned alot from what ive read. My car should be on the evalbum.com by now. Its the yellow 91 metro convertible. Btw Dr. Larry, how did you get your car to go 70 mph? I can only get mine to 55 mph. Thanks for the inspiration Dr Larry and others!!
Hi Ken.
Congratulations!
I was just looking at your Metro on EVAlbum. It looks really pretty! How did you manage to do it so cheaply? Everything seems to cost twice as much in the UK.
Hi James, Thanks for the compliment. I have all the same components that e-volks uses in there kit 2 ($2995 us). But, i got them seperatly for a little less, and i made my own coupler and adapter (still cost about $365) My batteries came from wal-mart, $65 a piece and i only have 6 so far. I made my battery rack from a bedframe much like the guy from hawaii(baerfoot). Keep checking the ev album, ill try to add more pictures and update as i have time. BTW, took it out to a car show tonight and people didnt know what to think of it!!
Ken
My car will do 70 mph, I didn’t do anything special it just does. I only cruse about 45 or so as it likes that speed. 70 mph was only acquired after the car comes right off the chargers and stiff tail wind :-). The speed your achieving shounds about right. Have fun. PS take it to car shows and parades. PS how is your range?
dr.Larry
Is that speed on 84V? How is that voltage upgrade working out so far? I’ve got an axe 7245 (in my golf cart)
Thanks!
Barna
The upgrade to 84 volts is ok however after charging I have to let the batteries sit for a minute to drain off some of the high voltage from the charging. The controler doesn’t like that much surface voltage and gives me the 7 red blinks until the voltage settles down. the wait is only about 15 minutes or so. And yes the 70 MPH is on the 84 volts. Motor seems to be taking it OK. Don’t get me wrong I have only had the car up to that speed a couple of times straight off of the chargers. I normally only run 45 or so. Thanks!
Dr. Larry, My range is only about 20 miles right now, but i only have 6 walmart batteries. Took it to another car show on saturday. It drew more attention than all the restored muscle cars. Sent you an email please respond if you find the time. Thanks
I know others have asked, but is there any way you can post a wiring schematic?
Also can you tell us the model number of your motor.
I have an es-15a-6, im wondering is dr larry using the same one?
Hi Dr.Larry,
I was wondering if there was a way you could install a DC alternator in the car so as you are running it, the car is charging the batteries.
Hi Connor, Go read this article.
Thanks for the article Jerry
Conner-
Not too long ago I visited a friend who purchased a converted Chevy S-10 and when he raised the hood I broke out into a laugh (not really meaning to) but there was a 10 horse electric motor with an alternator hooked to it. He didn’t put it there the person he bought it from did however believing that it would charge the service battery. I am sure it did but at what cost. Nope as much as we need a machine that doesn’t use power to make power so far there has never been created a free energy device. There is a lot of work being done on zero-point energy such as the Myer water powered car and to me that is about as close as one can get. I have a Chevy S-10 that I am considering puting a retro-fit hydrogen fuel cell in as I have been looking into that. But give me an electric car any day. Thanks for the question Dr. Larry
Hi, I am thinking of converting my geo metro into electric. I thinking of using the 72v system using the Alltrax controller. However, I heard that 72V is very slow on hills. Is that the case with you geo?. When you go up a steep hill, how bad is the slow down?. Rick
Dr. Larry, Please PLEASE tell us what motor you are running.
I built almost the exact same car as Dr Larry and ill tell you if I start a big hill at 45 mph, it only slows to 35 mph at the top. 84V is also possible with the alltrax 7245. Myself and Dr Larry have both tried it and it works a little better. DR LARRY WHAT MOTOR ARE YOU USING ES-15A-6????
I need a 12vdc vacuum pump. I must have power brakes. WHERE can I find one?
Summit Racing and Jeg’s both sell one for $269. Its made by ssbc. Any speed shop should be able to order it for you as well. You can buy a reservoir or make one out of pvc pipe.
Hi,
Did someone mention they have a Honda Insight available for an ev conversion? I’m looking around for one.
-John
Thanks for the info on vac pump. My conversion car is a 95 Probe and #2 kit from E-volks. I need to keep the power steering. HOW? HELP!
—————————-FRED
I would use an electric power steering pump from a toyota MR2. I dont think you can add a pulley to the other end of the es-15a motor so this would be the way to go.
Larry,
Ive been fascinated with my introduction to EV’s lately and ive been showing this blog to guys around my office. Everyone thinks this is the neatest thing since sliced bread.
I was thinking about making more of a high performance ev and was wondering if I could easily come across a high hp motor like about 150hp-200hp.
I’m converting a ’95 Geo Metro. I need an adaptor for the manual trans. Where can I get one? Any advise on keeping the A/C operating?
Advice on keeping the A/C operating:
1.) Bolt in a 12 volt D/C electric motor to drive the compressor only when you want to use the A/C.
2.) Use a double shafted motor in your car so you can attach a pulley to drive the compressor.
With the first option, I’d think that wiring the 12 volt motor so it comes on and is up to speed before the compressor clutch engages would reduce the initial load on your 12 volt systems verses trying to start the motor and compressor together. I suppose it would depend on the size of the motor you were using to do it with; maybe someone who’s more familiar with auxiliary motor draw might have some insight here.
The downside on the second option is that the compressor won’t be turning when you are not moving and it increases the drag on the motor which draws more amps therefore reducing range of the vehicle.
FYI – D&D Motor Systems has a new link to their website about EV conversions. Check it out at: http://www.ddmotorsystems.com/ElectricVehicles.shtml
I think I can weld a bike chain sprocket to the outside of the electric AC clutch – and a multia sprocket to my 12vdc motor. That will give me several speeds to play with I picked up a Brigs&Straton 8 hp starter motor at Glens Surplus in Shelby, Ohio
(a great place to shop). I’m not sure what the little starter will take. There were no specks on the motor other than [12 v]. I have not been able to find anything on an 8 horse Brigs.
dr. larry, you’re my hero this week. what do you think of me converting my ’65 chevy handi-van? i am fully aware of weight and aerodynamic issues (think refrigerator!) but it can also haul a LOT of weight, and has manual everything. i don’t need a lot of range, maybe 20 miles max per day. also do you recommend a comprehensive book on ev conversion? thanks p.s… also legality issues-who inspects these things to deem them road worthy?
Hi JJ Mills
I have no ideas on a van conversion but have no reservations that it could be done. As for who inspects, I had the local Highway Patrol do a safety check on the car and the EPA also came and gave me an exemption card. At that time our county required vehicle emission testing. We don’t have that now. I would go to you tube and check out all of the conversions there. I get more out of looking then reading any time. thanks for the comments
Dr. Larry
Another place to find alot of variety is at www.evalbum.com. I’ve learned alot there and spend way too much time on that site.
Hey i have a question but couldn’t post it on the second update because it said there were too many posts. Anyway i was wondering if Dr. Larry kept all of the batteries hooked together when he was charging them. If he does then wouldn’t the second charger have to deal with 24 volts instead of 12 and the third have 36 and so on and so on. And one more question for dr. larry. Did you use fiberglass body panels for your metro. I plan on using fiberglass body panels and replacing parts of the frame with titanium alloys which are lighter and stronger than the steel parts currently being used.
P.S. i picked up a 1990 ford Probe GT yesterday and plan on using a 72 volt system similar to dr. larry’s but will use one charger per battery and use 2 accessory batteries for a total of 14 batteries. I will use Everstart marine deep cycle batteries that are half the size of the ones dr. larry used and have 500 cold cranking amps at 0 degrees Fahrenheit. However i will not let them get that cold. I will use 4 12 volt heater cores, 2 for the cab and 2 for the batteries. I will use a 12 volt Air Conditioner electric motor drive system for the AC compressor(heavy duty compressor originally from a 2500HD Chevy pickup) and use it to keep the batteries at a moderate temperature.
Total runtime at 50% dod will be 10 to 15 hours. range in miles unknown.
Hi all; I am currently working on a new project for no gas 2. It is a generator trailer that will tow behind the car. The “hybrid trailer is nothing new but for the life of me I can’t seem to find anyone who is doing this very thing. This hybrid trailer will have a 15 hp gas engine, 100 amp alternator. It is electric start. I hope you will understand how the wiring will be accomplished. First of all the system as it is now is 84 volts. I have been running this way for well over 2 years. I have 7 batteries hooked in series and to each of those I have an additional battery hooked in parallel. I will tap each + and each – and bring them to one central point that become my charging point for the hybrid trailer. In essence this will transform the all electric car into a plug in hybrid only unlike the plug in hybrid the car has no gas engine at all and the trailer can be left home if you are not planning on going over range. The trailer was purchased from Harbor Freight and the engine I found for $100. The wire in the car for the charging will be #10 gauge. The wire running from the trailer to the charging terminals in the car will be #2 cable. The body of the trailer is actually a cargo hauler the kind that would normally be put on top of your car sort of like those u-haul ones you see. The trailer has been painted to match the car. The whole thing is beautiful. Jerry I will in the near future be submitting to you some photos to be posted above if that is OK. Stayed tuned. Dr. Larry
Hey Dr. Larry,
I’ve seen one of these trailer types being hauled by motorcycles and it was very aerodynamic looking. Here are some links for similar types. http://www.prolineracks.com/car-roof-top-cargo-carriers.html http://www.motorcycletrailer.com/ http://www.motorcycletrailer.com/cargo1.htm http://www.uhaul.com/guide/index.aspx?equipment=trailer-sport http://www.performancedesign.net/Portfolio/car/samples/trans/uhaulwkndr1.htmlGreetings from the newcomer. I just started to build an EV. I’m using an ADC9, and making my own controller, which worked fine at 105 Volts….until one device blew. They’re rated at 300V., and the transients were about 120 V. peak. I had many more to keep it going. (all on the bench)My question: Have you observed oscilloscope waveforms coming from the motor? I get a ringing at low to mid speed, then it disappears mid to full speed. There are no stray oscillations from the controller. A 470 uF, 450 Volt, 105 deg. C capacitor across the controller cures it all, but will literally explode if left powered up. Any thoughts on the ringing?
Thanks..Mike
P.S. I made a battery charger from a pawn shop ARC welder I paid $70 for. My wife and I re-wound it for 120 volts at about 10 amps. It will fully charge a string of 8, or more, 12 Volt batteries in series. I charge at about 6 amps.
Mike
I am going to try using a Chrysler alternator. I chose a Chrysler because they require an external voltage regulator. That means without a regulator the alternator will deliver about 140 volts DC full output. I can control the voltage out with two methods as I only want about 90 volts or less. the first method is just to run the gas engine at a desired RPM the other is to adjust the field voltage with a rheostat. If I put too much voltage up front or into the battery string, it will shut down the voltage controller. The alternator is rated at almost 60 amps. I am hoping for the best as this is all experimental. I have done some work on the car-top putting in the control panel and gas tank. I have the motor but am still waiting for the trailer to arrive from Harbor Freight. I will send pictures when it is completed. Dr. Larry
was that alternator rated 60 amps at 12 volts. if it was then at 140 volt it would probably only output 6 amps. then regulating it to 90 volts would give about 10 amps of charging. if your just looking to trickle charge while driving then this is a good idea but if you want to extend the range then 10 amps won’t do very much at all.
I have an excellent project for my electric car(i just got it yesterday and hope to start within 2 weeks so maybe jerry will have an article on it very soon). anyway i measured under the backseat and i have just enough room above the axle(the seat will have to be raised up). i plan on using 6 12 volt 600 cold cranking amp car starting batteries. yeah you heard right, STARTING BATTERIES. now before you say anything continue reading. i will use a 2nd 72 volt motor and a 500 amp controller. i will program so it activates for 10 seconds only. i have an old nitrous microswitch that only activates at full throttle. i gutted this and ran wires directly to the mechanical linkage and will hook these to the potbox input so that when it activates it does so at full throttle only. this will not be used for more range but more temporary torque at full throttle. this is just to give me a faster 0-60 time(hopefully in the lower 8 seconds) and starting batteries are perfect because they are built to put out high amounts of current for short amounts of time(say 10 seconds). during normal driving (not at full throttle) the second motor will not be active but if i want to i can show out at a red light for no other reason than to shatter the misconception that EV’s are too slow. can’t wait to get it done and show out for my friends(and the cops).
Dr. Larry,
I have dreamed of doing a conversion for years. And now, with gas so high and a dead late 80’s Isuzu pickup in the garage, now seems to be the oportune time. The truck has a 5 speed and I think I can have plenty of room under the bed for batteries, and some under the hood. The owner of the company I work for was concidering doing a conversion in the late 70’s, bought some components and then ditched the project. I was going to go over and see what he has b/c they are free. I think he was going to engineer his own controller (he is kind of geeky that way). What I need to know is how to calculate the type of components I would need for a 40 mile, one way commute – charge for the 10 hours I am there, and come back. My route does not have any steep inclines and is a state highway, not interstate, so if I could cruise at 55, that would be great. Can you send me a link to know how to start this? Then I will go scavange the 70’s equipment he has to see just what is there.
Has anyone tried to work out some regenerative braking?
Also, one of the reasons I was going to use the truck (one b/c it is paid for and is in good shape) is I plan on covering the canopy or toneau cover with solar cells.
Thanks for any help
rm
80’s Isuzu pickup that is in good condition. nice choice. regenerative braking is possible if you have a controller set up for it. most people have trouble setting up regen on series wound motors but it is possible. if i were you i would use a permanent magnet motor. as to what motor, controller and other stuff you use it is up to you. most kelly controllers have regen capability at a low price and many people use these because they are very reliable. as for the solar cells they are not a good idea if you need to extend the range by any measurable amount but can help keep up the voltage as battery power gets lower like dr. larry did.
just click the link in the top right that says conversions and read some of the other conversions that people have done.
-EVdude, thanks
I have just recieved a hand-me-down aircraft generator that I may start with. I have been looking at the BearKat kit that are used mainly with VW conversions. It may not get me what I want, but it will be a start and from what I can see on BearKat’s site, it may not be all that expensive – and regen is built into the shunt motor/generator design.
If I continue down this road, I will be concerned with making the p’up as light as possible by making the battery boxes out of aluminum and such. The BearKat is pretty old school, using relays instead of transistors and such, but there again – less expensive way to get into this.
I do like Dr. Larry’s suggestion of the Walmart deep cycle 12v batteries instead of the golf cart batteries and the less expensive chargers. I will have to research that a bit more to understand that – especially with doing a 36-48v build.
I will post what I find out from BearKat.
Thanks again
rm
Can you give me the web address for BearKat. If you want to make the pickup lighter then try your hand at fiberglass making. I found that it is not as hard as it seems but you do need to be careful because if you mess up you may have to start over.
good luck on your conversion.
http://members.aol.com/bohandesign/evkits/default.htm
They don’t have a ton of info – but it is the old school relay type of system with built in regen braking – more up my ally right now. I have e-mailed them and Kaylor to try and find out information and as of yet – no help. Good luck!
Dr. Larry helped me realize that the KTA and EVA prices are not absolutes – thankyou. One problem I am having with my 12 volt chargers is that the switch for the amps must be pressed to get the highest 6-amp rate. Which on mine means pressing 12 chargers 2 clicks each night. A slide switch would be better for this setup. Internally it is all on a circuit board, so can’t be bypassed.
I am still in progress:
http://www.evalbum.com/1783
Hi Folks,
I am sorry it has been some time since I have been on here to answer some of your questions but I do want to address a couple that I have been asked off of the website. The first question I was asked concerned contactors. I never used a contactor. Instead I used a manual throw switch mounted just behind the driver’s seat. This eliminates some problems some have had with the contacts welding themselves shut if there is a lot of amperage present when the ignition is turned on. Second there is a lot more surface with a manual switch then with a set of relays contacts. The second question had to do with use of solar panels on the car. First of all the solar panels I use are only rated at about 2 watts each so when it comes to charging the batteries it is like a spit in the ocean but that isn’t the reason I put them there. You may or may not know that deep cycle batteries will sulfate if they are not constantly being charged or discharged. Nothing is harder on one of these batteries then to just sit. So the reason for the solar panels is to keep the batteries doing something in between charges to keep the plates a clean as possible and prolong the life of the battery. I will soon be approaching 6 years on the Road with No Gas 2 and I noticed a difference in batter life with and without the panels. Work on the extended range trailer continues and I will soon being sharing the project with all of you. ….Dr. Larry
There is a blip on youtube about No Gas 2. In the search bar type in my amateur call KB8GJG and click on the picture of the car. Thanks. Dr. Larry
Nice EV. I can’t wait to convert mine. Mustang cars are fuel monsters. I really hate it.
can you put an electric motor right on to the rear diff of a, or do you need a tranny?
Jeff,
Yes
http://www.go-ev.com/images/TransWarP_9_%20Mktg1.jpg
Can you connect a generator to recharge the batteries? I know it will decrease the hp but by a substancial amount?